Mansfield Park

I read this book last year. Yesterday I started listening to it through Libravox. I have readently finished the first volume of Le Morte D'Arthur and figured i should go for something light before diving into the second volume. I have a list of books I am planing on listening to this year through Libravox but they have a particular order to them; Les Miserables followed by The Tale of Two Cities, followed by The Scarlet Pimpernel, then I would probably listen to the Count of Monte Cristo just to round up this fun group of novels taking place in france. but I wasn't ready for that I just wanted a little break before continuing with more middle English literature... or I at least think that is the category L'Morte D'Arthur... any way back on topic-

I really like Jane Austen, I've read most of her books starting with her most popular books and working my way through the less popular books. Mansfield Park falls on the less popular end of the spectrum, and I can understand why:

1. Fanny is the complete opposite of the other Jane Austen Heroines. a. where Maryanne is loud and active seeking adventure Fanny is quiet and often prefers to sit and be. b. Where Elizabeth voices her opinion often with those who will share her opinion and join in her mirth fanny only confides her opinions to her cousin preferring not to vocalize her judgments in hopes that she is miss informed. c. where Emma enjoys being the center of attention Fanny prefers to let others take the lead. The only Heroine she is very much like is Jane Bennett but she has no Lizzy to stand by her nor is she surrounded by a loving family. She is much like Elanor Dashwood but she receives less thanks for her sacrifices and again has no one who supports her.

2. Mansfield Park places goodness, selflessness, and love in contrast to Pleasure, Selfishness, and Apathy. it is in many ways a treaties against hedonism which in a culture chasing after the new shiny gadget or new experience is not popular. This is similar to the preference of Batman to Superman. (I know that in many circles this is not true but Let us look at these two super heroes in light of thier current visablity in the motion picture industry Batman has had two very sucsessful films and a third which will probably be a resounding crescendo to the build up of the last two films. Superman has had one film and as far as superhero movies go... well lets just say it wasn't as bad as the second fantasic four moive or the two Hulk Movie attempts.) Being Good and seeing the faults in others is judgmental. Fanny is a representative of Goodness, by being so she stands in judgement over her Shallow cousins, what is forgotten is that she loves this family who took her in, and she shows that love by serving them.  not to get 'religious' on everyone but that is what Christian love should look like. To actually unpack that thought would probably take a series of blog posts but I will try to sum it up by pointing you to an act of Jesus during the last supper, he took on the garb of a slave and washed his disciples feet then told them to do like wise.

Well that is quite the Introduction. Really what I wanted to do was share some quotes from the book that i just love, but I think I have shared enough for today. I will share my quotes Soon-ish. I've decided I shouldn't make promises on this blog, I rarely seem to be able to keep up.

Till next time God Speed and open roads.

The Iliad 3: Achilles and Hector

So what is the Iliad about? It is called the greatest war story of all time. It is one of the first of the epics. The great epic, if you will. It has influenced on the western world is undeniable. There are many things that can be said. Today my last day for writing about the Iliad I want to focus on what I think is the core purpose of this book. and that is Honor and Heroism. See while many in a Judeo/christian world view may see the Greeks as well hedonists without morality they were very concerned with what the good life was, and what it meant to be a virtuous man. This is at the core of what Plato and Aristotle talk about, and I think it is also at the heart of what Homer is trying to tell his listeners.

So let us ask the question who is the hero? Who is it who lives the good life? who is the virtuous man? this is what I believe is the core and story behind this book. The main character of this book is Achilles. So we would think that the story is about how he is the greatest hero, the most virtuous man, and is most defiantly living the good life. 

we find out that Achilles knows that he will die in this war. He had the choice to stay and lead a long life but choice to go to war because that was the better thing to do. Here we get what is the first thing that may lead us to know what a virtuous man is. 1. The virtuous man is the one who will go to war for his fellows even if it means his death.  By going to war he has proved that he is courageous and willing to lay down his life for something bigger then himself. by this death he will be honored for his sacrifice.

---> but then, well Achilles falls to injured pride. see his prize for fighting well in battle is taken from him. he gets angry, and goes to have a talk with his mother. it just so happens that his mother is goddess, a goddess who has the ear of Lord Zeus.

Now I am actually going to give Achilles something here. see by taking his prize away Agamemnon was actually basically walking all over Achilles' honor, and that is not a nice thing to do. 2. the honor of a virtuous man is not to be shamed. So on the one hand Achilles has ever right to require an apology from Agamemnon before he will reenter the war.

But on the other hand because of Achilles' actions and the deal his mother makes with Zeus a lot of bad things happen. the deal his mother made? that the Greeks would lose so that Agamemnon would have to apologize to Achilles and by sitting out of the war Achilles wont miss out on any glory due him.

Then the death of his very good friend Patroclus happens. After morning the death of his friend he goes for revenge. he is going to kill Hector.

But now about Hector. Hector is the defender of the city, the crown prince. yes he killed Patroclus, he thought it was Achilles. and when he realized it wasn't Achilles he knew that he was a dead man. generally I am not a fan of the movie Troy, for a lot of reasons, but there is one scene I love. Hector is going to go out to war the next day, he knows Achilles is going to be looking for him, and he knows that he will not return. In the movie Hector takes his wife aside and shows her a secret way out of the city. it is a very touching scene and his wife begs him to stay behind, to stay safe. But Hector is a virtuous man. he is an honorable man. That means he must go out to battle and sacrifice his life even if he knows he will not return, even if he knows his city will not be saved by his sacrifice. His honor and virtue rely on the fact that he will go out to battle and meet his fate.

And Achilles does kill him, and drags the dead body of Hector around the city walls behind his chariot. Greeks defiantly knew how to get revenge. Yet despite the desecration of hectors body does not change the fact that he acted honorable and virtuously. Then something interesting happens. King Priam goes to the Greek camp to beg for his son's body. He puts the honor of his dead son above his own honor. So while Achilles's honor is disregarded by his piers, Hector's honor is revered even after his body is desecrated.

Achilles left home for war to live the virtuous life. He wanted fame glory and honor. Hector left the safety of his home and his loving wife because he is a virtuous man. Hector has what Achilles wants. So who is the hero? Who were the little Greek children supposed to be emulate.

The Iliad: Messianic Message Part Two Briseis

So Like I said last week there was one other women I wanted to look at when it came to where or not the Iliad has a messianic message. Her name is Briseis. she was just a normal women till one day the Greeks came killed her family and husband. she was then given to Achilles. Now in the Iliad it is mentioned that she might love Achilles, but at the same she was a prisoner of war, a prize I hardly think it would have mattered one bit if she loved him or not. Their relationship is compared to that of Helen and Menelaus which is why the Greeks are camped on the shores sieging Troy. Oh and let me add Achilles killed Briseis' family, I think lust, possession, and survival had more to do with both these relationships then what we would hold up as true love.

Any way so there was another girl who was taken during this particular pillaging her name is Chryseis she was given to Agamemnon as his prize after the battle. but she has someone who cares about her and pleads with the God Apollo to strike the Greeks for taking his daughter. -if anything this could be where the messianic story could be...kind of.  Well Apollo decides to listen to his priest, the Greeks get hit by a plague and so Chryseis is sent back to her father.

Now this is where things get interesting. See Agamemnon doesn't think it is right that Achilles have a prize form the battle when he doesn't have a girl to keep his bed warm. So what does he do? Well he is in charge so he takes Achilles' prize. and Achilles whines like a baby to his mommy and refuses to fight in the battle till Agamemnon gives him back his prize. Sounds a bit more like a mixture of wounded pride and boy getting his toy truck stolen by the bully on the play ground then a great and mighty warrior who has come to Troy to killed honorably in battle.

This is the event which sets up the rest of the book. If Achilles wasn't so worried about his own wounded pride then the book would have ended much differently. here is the thing Achilles doesn't start fighting again when he is given the girl back, he is, he starts fighting again because his beloved friend was killed. His friend was killed because Achilles did the dishonorable thing and stayed out of battle. he acted the part of a coward and no longer deserved the prize he had been give. Briseis is the catalyst for Achilles' dishonorable actions, he does the right thing only after Patrolclus gets killed in battle. But that will be the topic for next weeks post.

This weeks post is shorter but hopefully it gets the point across. Briseis is stolen from her family, then as a prize she is passed from one man to another, then back to the first. She is little more then a symbol of the power of the man she is given to. Achilles is not her Messiah, she is not his messiah figure. Instead this relationship reflects poorly on Achilles by wounding his pride and leading him to act with dishonor rather then with honor. If anything this once again points out that the world is a terrible place where the weak are ruled and used by the strong and there is no one who will help the cause of the weak. It is better to be part of the strong.

Real quick note about Chryseis, she is stolen from her family too, but her father is still alive. he begs for her to be given back. but according to the laws of war in the ancient time there is no reason that the Greeks should give up any of their prizes. Luckily this man has someone to go to for help, a god. this could be your messianic message but it is such a minor part of the story that it can hardly be concidered a theme of the book. Better the theme that is here that gets repeated through out the book is be careful what gods are on your side and also do your best to not piss off any of them.

The Iliad-Messiah Message? part 1 Helen of Troy

Today I would like to talk about Homer's The Iliad. Last year I listened to The Iliad followed by the Odyssey, Followed by the Aeneid. Now The Iliad I remember better because I have read it at least twice, and what I want to talk about is whether or not it follows something my cousin Turner said as a reply on his wife's blog post about Literature. This is what he said:

 Throughout history, the best loved and followed stories have always either been allegorical for 1 of 2 stories; Jesus Christ the Messiah or The Holy Grail.

We discussed this for a little (and I mean a little bit) before he basically said  'Meh I'm right, you are just silly.' that is not a direct quote but that was I got out of what he said. I think because one of his examples was Disney that he believes that the Messiah story was that there was someone who was being held against their will and a savior had to go and save that person. he also said that his belief was that the Holy grail was really Royal blood, but that argument is for another day after I have actually read the grail and Authorial Narratives.

Now I want to continue the argument in saying that the Iliad does not propagate the Messiah story, or rather that it tells an anti messiah story. (I don't know if Turner reads my blog, I think his wife does so this could be a very one sided but hey. Oh and Turner if you do stop by I would love to hear your thoughts.)

So what I am going to do is use the story of Hosea as a general guide for a messiah story. just to summarize, Hosea is a prophet who is told by God to go and marry a prostitute, and he is told that she will be unfaithful to him. and she does, at one point Hosea has to go to the slave market and buy her back. This story is meant to be an allegory, Hosea is playing the part of God and his wife -Gomer, what an unfortunet name-is playing the par of God's people.

Now when looking at the Iliad, at first glance I would say there is nothing in this book that has those themes. the book is focused on a war between the Greeks and the Trojans. Particularly about one very famous hero Achilles, his fight against the Mighty Hector, and how he earned honor, glory, renowned, and immortality.  And those things are very important because that is what the book is about. Oh and I will talk about that next week. but this week I am going to talk about two minor stories that are either back story to the text or motivation for why things happen in the book the way they do.

First we are going to talk about Helen of Troy. because I think this is the first place someone could go if they wanted to say that the Iliad has Messianic themes. Helen is the wife of Menelaus, She is whisked away by Pairs of troy, and Menelaus takes an army to Troy to get her back, to destroy Troy for daring to steal his wife.  This would seem to fit the story. a good man who has taken a beautiful wife who is tempted to run away with someone else and her husband comes after her. That is the story of Hosea right?

But lets take a closer look. Do you know how Helen became Menelaus's wife? well that depends on what story you want to believe. According to my good buddy the Myth Man She was abducted at the age of twelve by Theseus and his pal Peirithous. At age twelve! they then did a little coin toss to find out which one of them was going to be the lucky guy to marry her, when she comes of age of course. But Thesesus and Peirithous went missing with enough time for her brothers to rescue her. Now safe in her father's house the suitors come a calling. they are all enamored over her legendary beauty and are willing to fight and kill over her. Luckily for everyone involved, Odysseus comes up with a great plan, all the suitors will take the Oath of Tyndareus, which says that they will defend to the death whoever becomes Helen's husband. And with that the auction is opened. Menelaus wins, he pays the check to her father and takes her home. 

There is a great moment in the movie Helen of Troy that I think sums up Menelaus's feelings for his new bride. At a great feast he orders her to walk across a table where all his guests are lounging bare breast naked. his guests are the suitors who loss, and I believe in the movie this is where Paris sees Helen for the first time-but I don't quite remember. Now up to this point I would be willing to agree that possibly the Iliad could have this messianic theme of the Rescuer coming after his love but here is where it all breaks down. In the prophets we often here about God refer to Israel as his lover, whom he clothed and protected, who is precious to him. Menelaus shows us the opposition here. She is his possession, he won and all his piers lost, now he must show them what they are all missing out on. He strips and parades her around saying "look what I got, isn't she pretty? and she is all mine, my beautiful trophy, look don't touch guys." 

I chose this because Orlando is
probably the most hansom
Paris there has ever been

But then Paris comes along. Now Maybe we could say that Paris is the Messiah figure he loves Helen and is willing to risk the destruction of his city and country for her. Or is he just one more man who must possess her no matter what the cost? Let me ask you how did Paris come to have Helen? Oh yeah, Aphrodite gave her to him. 

You know the story right? how Paris has to judge who is the most beautiful of the three goddesses: Athena, Aphrodite, and Hera. How does a mortal choose? by hearing what he gets out of it, and Aphrodite told him he could have the most beautiful women in the whole world if he said that she was the most beautiful of them all. What do you think he did? Yep you guessed it. So Aphrodite made it so Helen agreed to run away with Paris. Truly I don't know why you wouldn't take the first opportunity to run away from a husband like Menelaus.

But is Paris her messiah, is he the one she loves? A moment from the Iliad would say otherwise, after Paris has run like a whiny baby back to his room she tells him he is a coward- quite a low blow considering the book is about honor and glory through battle.  but he tells her to shut up and lie down on the bed with him. Another lover who values her only for her looks, a prize, a trophy. 

Helen's fate is a confused. one it seems that many authors have continued this idea that she is continually abducted by strangers, Before she is killed by a slighted wife. another say that she is put into captivity with the other women taken from troy. Virgil's the Aeneid claims that she assisted the Greeks in their taking of the city, while homer claims that she tortures the men hiding inside the horse by mimicking their wives voices. 

So does Helen provide the the themes needed for a messiah story as my cousin would claim is in every book? there are two ways you can look at it. lets say that Menelaus is the Rescuer. his wife was after all spirited away from him. And he goes to war to get her back...or does he? More likely he is going to war to avenge his wounded pride. Helen is just the symbol of that pride. Is Pairs the Rescuer? I mean the Movie Troy portrayed them as to lovers who happened to be caught in the middle of a terrible set of circumstances.    In that case he is a lousy rescuer, troy falls and he dies in battle leaving her to go back to the hell she he rescued her from. 

This is why I say this is an Anti-messiah story. The messiahs who are available are selfish men who abuse the one they abducted. Helen was only safe when she was a child. From then on she is at the mercy of the men who lay claim to her and the gods. She has no knight in shining armor to rescue her only to accept her fate. if anything this story reminds women that they need to be self reliant because no one will be there when they are in need. 

The thing is, all this is back story to the Iliad, it is not what the Iliad is about, but I'll talk about that eventually. next I must look at a second women who is tied up in this mess.

The Canterbury Tales 6: the Wife of Bath's Tale

The next couple of weeks (at least) will be focused on the Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer. I have listened to it in its entirety once and then when I was thinking about how to talk about them I decided to break it down into the individual tales and give a post of each one.  I am going to limit my self to one post per story because some of them are so full of interesting things that I could post for a month and still have more to explore. 

Bold was her face, and fair and red of hue.
She was a worthy woman all her live,
Husbands at the church door had she had five,
Withouten other company in youth;
But thereof needeth not to speak as nouth now
And thrice had she been at Jerusalem;
She hadde passed many a strange stream
At Rome she had been, and at Bologne,
In Galice at Saint James, and at Cologne;
She coude* much of wand'rng by the Way. knew
Gat-toothed was she, soothly for to say. Buck-toothed

So before I do my hundred word Summary of this one I want to talk about the Wife of Bath's prologue. this is the most confusing part of her story. her prologue is longer then her story. She establishes her self as an authority on marriage because she has been married five times, and she says quite frankly that she welcomes the sixth when ere he comes. now on the one hand I like this women she basically says you know what I like having sex, and I don't see why I shouldn't marry again. over and over I was surprised by how many references she made to antiquity. And I thought look here is a women who is well read... only to find out that she miss quotes the people and books she claims to be quoting which makes me sad.

apparently her prologue follows the style of a medieval genre of allegorical Confession. in this confession she admits and proudly defends that she is what the church at that time would call a wicked women. From the start she puts herself in conflict with the patriarchal society. Often, because of this,  people look to this story as one of the first Feminist Stories but the problem with that is that the wife of Bath also confirms a number of the anti-marriage stereotypes, thus actually supporting the male dominant society.

one other thing about her prologue is that The Wife of Bath constantly calls attention to the fact that she is a habitual liar. So how can we trust anything that she has said in her prologue? In the end how much of her experiences should we believe? or was it all a performance?

Summary

Once there was a knight who raped a maiden and the Queen. she sent him out to find out what women want. He searched and found an old hag who gave him the answer he needed for a price, when she saved his life he had to marry her, which he did. however on their wedding night he couldn't bring himself to do his duty. Because she was so old and ugly. she gave him the choice. either she would be old and loyal, or young and flirtatious. He gave her the choice and she became both young and devoted.

SO you ask what is it that women want? The sovereignty. All worldly women most desire to have the sovereignty in their marriage. It makes sense in light of Genesis where it says your desire will be for your husband but he will rule over you. Also it makes sense in the light of the battle of the sexes which is always being pointed out to us. I'm just going to put this one up for discussion, is that what women want? is that what you want?  I see my marriage as a partnership. we have different roles to play but my husband doesn't rule over me nor do I rule over him. but I am curious, readers what do you think?

the part of this story that I really liked was when the Fairy talks about how the age is a great protection for a man against becoming a cuckold- by the way an other awesome word, it is great word. she tells him 'oh you don't like me as an old women? are you not afraid to become a cuckold?' here we talk about the value of looks and the value of age. An old women has learned from experience, she now knows why she shouldn't be running around like a cat in heat. a young and beautiful women has many admirers, she is tempted and doesn't have the experiences to tell her why she shouldn't play around on her husband. it is like the fairy says 'look I can be what you want, I'll be pretty. You and your house will suffer because if you force me to become what you want I will act out, I will play in other men's beds. but if you are willing to accept me for who I am then I you will never have any worries.'

What is interesting is that he decided to learn from his lesson. he took a girl against her will and was in danger of death had it not been for this fairy, so he says,'well why don't you decide what is best.' giving her the sovereignty. knowing that he will not be a man to chase other women's skirts, that he is hers she then says, 'I will be to you both.' Because it is her choice. and then they lived happily ever after.

It is interesting to think about the association of age and youth. the miller's tale told us about the dangers of having a wife who is very young when compared to her husband, and there will be another tale that is similar.   I wonder if it is simply a difference of experiences, the young don't want to believe that some experiences are not good and instead they believe the old are trying to steal some thing good from them. it is something to ponder. -I don't know maybe I am just rambling. But anyway I will leave you with the last lines from this story:

"And may Christ Jesus send us husbands meek and young and fresh abed. And then the grace to outlive those we wed; I also pray that Jesus shorten lives of those who won't be governed by their wives. As for old niggards angered by expense, God send them soon a mighty pestilence!"

Coffee Shop Melodies

I've been listening to classical books while at work.  I love it, it makes my job bearable and I want to talk about these amazing books I have enjoyed.

Originally I was going to just write a review of the book.  Then as I was writing the review i found that there was just too much i wanted to talk about.  So I came to the conclusion that maybe I would just have a literature discussion on a weekly basis.  these will expose the ending so if you haven't read the book be warned.

My Reading, books listed here I have finished Reading, if I have posted about them I will put a link following the book title. If there isn't a link it means I have read it and intend to post about it.

Hunchback of Nortre Dame By Victor Hugo:
     Disney Lied
     What Makes a Monster and What Makes a Man
     Esmeralda: The Tragic Virgin
     The Edifice
Adventures in the Afterlife Series By Mur Lafferty
     Heaven: Misconceptions of heaven
     Hell:
     Waste land:
     War:
The GFL Series (Galactic Football League) By Scott Sigler
     The Rookie:
William Shakespeare's Plays
     Hamlet: Vengeance
Books By Jane Austen
     Sense and Sensibility:  Family Responsibility
     Emma:
     Mansfield Park:
The Canterbury Tales By Geoffrey Chaucer
     The Knight's Tale
     The Miller's Tale

My Current Reading list:
The Simarillion by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Starter by Scott Sigler
Jane Eyre By Charlotte Bronte